tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3452007250221117551.post4111775445675692370..comments2024-03-29T14:51:07.745+05:30Comments on Shobhaa De: Sheila Dixit ki jai ho!!!Shobhaa Dehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05610708004901279105noreply@blogger.comBlogger59125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3452007250221117551.post-2407639160567959702010-07-23T00:17:56.250+05:302010-07-23T00:17:56.250+05:30We can write, lament,wait for another 26/11 so tha...We can write, lament,wait for another 26/11 so that hysteria builds up & dies its own death. We know we can't change, we're like that & we continue to accept the nonsense we are given....yeh sab chalta hai aur aisa hi hota rahega, so who's bothered, you-me-him. You know the answer & thats just about it. If you can't stand up, than why cry, its country of our making-good or bad, we reap Modi becoz we sow Modi (name and party is irrelevant here).Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06165492292407937458noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3452007250221117551.post-22375679601460971782008-12-17T12:30:00.000+05:302008-12-17T12:30:00.000+05:30Joy, I think we have more grounds that connects ou...Joy, I think we have more grounds that connects our ideas than we thought. <BR/><BR/>Since, I don't want to revisit this page again! Just send me an email, whenever you have ur blog set up:<BR/><BR/>r2dsilva@ryerson.ca <BR/><BR/>As for mahgan, it would be nice to have you onboard too lol. <BR/><BR/>Peace :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3452007250221117551.post-10020709266504716702008-12-17T10:38:00.000+05:302008-12-17T10:38:00.000+05:30AnonymousWhoa !! Now that is an angle that is comp...Anonymous<BR/>Whoa !! Now that is an angle that is completely new.... Organized religion, in itself, slowly getting eroded by democracy.. <BR/>You know - I gotta admit - this is something I'd thought of, but did not pay much attention to, since the idea just seemed, you know, ridiculous 'cos I myself am a bit of a history buff ... and it just seemed, y'know - scandalous..<BR/>I've read quite a few books across religions, and have found out that you can interpret a lot of them any which way you want - I guess that's why I get pissed off .. <BR/>Anyways, this'll be my last long post here, too - maybe I'll get a blog and we can continue this there.<BR/>Won't go into the Danish thing - the paper didn't - the Danish government didUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08131889407576044308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3452007250221117551.post-39660511198355507942008-12-15T21:07:00.000+05:302008-12-15T21:07:00.000+05:30ok this is the last long post on here lol... im go...ok this is the last long post on here lol... im going to set up a blog soon hehe. <BR/><BR/>Ok why are we rambling on and on. I will reveal to you something I think is unevitable. Are you ready to hear it? <BR/><BR/>Religion has been around since a long time. Humanity is heading towards a direction, by choice or fate, away from it. Look at the west for example. Democracy doesnt allow the strict rules and regulations, if any, of a religion to thrive. I can only see Religious Ideas, Ideologies and philosophies survive. So if Hindhuism doesnt undergo some sort of a transformation to make it appealing especially to the youth, Im sorry to say it man... it stands at the brink of extinction just like other religions too. BJP is already losing its popularity with the youth, for the "in your face" Hindhuism they are practicing. <BR/><BR/>I know this is a harsh truth. But think about it. Imagine the world 300 years in the future. You think, our kids and grand kids and great great grand kids will really perform pujas, go to church, or pray five times a day as religiously as our grandfathers did? I can see our adherence to religion weakening by every generation! So your question about letting go of Religion altogether... I would say dont let go! Cause we will lose all these years of our customs, traditions and what not. For me religion is like a fairy tale... its very enthralling, interesting and I would practice it only for sheer thrill (That is also part of the reason some westerners practice hindhuism). I think all religions are living in the fear of extinction and thats why they are becoming so insecure. It has happened in the past, it will happen again. This is how history will inevitably repeat itself. I know its a sorry prenomination I have. But I am afraid it is going to come true. Least we can do is to transform the image of Hindhuism in some which way... I wouldnt know... so it becomes more appealing to the future generations. <BR/><BR/>About church saying sorry and all that, so they didnt... what can we do? And btw the pictures of mohammed being published in that danish paper has drawn flack of such a bigger magnitude. They still havent really said sorry, and you would have that argument only if you were a muslim! Thats what im trying to say... we all have bias. I pursue and defend stories that affect my community, and you will pursue and defend stories that affect yours. That is why I see as the christian community as victims, and you see the mobs as victims. All is fair, I totally understand. But really lets stop all this... Im ready to extend a hand of friendship and move on... so what if you havnt apologized or if someone else hasnt apologised? I could care less. I am anonymous on here, so I dont mind being politically incorrect and will say that Organised religion to some extent is incompatible to democratic ideas. Islam is the prime example, christianity of a lesser extent, and Hindhuism of much lesser extent. I think Buddhism and democracy are the most compatible. <BR/><BR/>ahhh i dont feel like writing more lol. So ill stop here. <BR/><BR/>And to mahgan who tried to ridicule me as anonymouse. What makes him think he is less anonymouse than me? Just coz he put a damn name to his post? lol... go get a little education man.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3452007250221117551.post-55297471004553368902008-12-15T12:32:00.000+05:302008-12-15T12:32:00.000+05:30Anonymous (really - this getting ridiculous - I re...Anonymous (really - this getting ridiculous - I really should get a blog)<BR/>You say we should examine our own bias, just like you freely admit to having some yourself (and I admire you for it). <BR/>Let me give a shot at getting to the root of the bias in a lot of Hindus - A deep-rooted fear. <BR/><BR/>The fear of being enslaved AGAIN. <BR/><BR/>The fear of having to become second-class citizens AGAIN in their own land. <BR/><BR/>The fear of having widespread destruction and havoc wrought upon us again. <BR/><BR/>I submit this to you, as evidence - <BR/>"<BR/><BR/>"We [Muslims] were the legal rulers of India, and in 1857 the British took that away from us," says Tarik Jan, a gentle-mannered scholar at Islamabad's Institute of Policy Studies. "In 1947 they should have given that back to the Muslims." Jan is no militant, but he pines for the golden era of the Mughal period in the 1700s and has a fervent desire to see India, Pakistan and Bangladesh reunited under Islamic rule.<BR/> <BR/>"<BR/>- Time Magazine, Nov. 27, 2008 (Cover story)<BR/><BR/>Does anybody ever ask us whether we want Islamic rule to be reestablished ?Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08131889407576044308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3452007250221117551.post-63860962822416477782008-12-15T12:22:00.000+05:302008-12-15T12:22:00.000+05:30And finally, to your comment about "In the end we ...And finally, to your comment about "In the end we are all people, and we would be happier I assure you if we lived in peace and prosperity, rather than holding on to our religions, pride and ego, and live in fear and cynicism."<BR/><BR/>I agree with you whole-heartedly. <BR/><BR/>What I don't understand is - should we let go of religion to live in peace and prosperity ?Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08131889407576044308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3452007250221117551.post-57817786924342641192008-12-15T12:19:00.000+05:302008-12-15T12:19:00.000+05:30Dear AnonymousSorry for the late response. Yes - m...Dear Anonymous<BR/>Sorry for the late response. <BR/>Yes - maybe I should get a blog - that would at least save space here, if nothing. And - copy everything you have written<BR/>before you submit the post - saves a lot of headaches, man.. <BR/><BR/>Anyways - <BR/>The church disowned the literature. <BR/>AFTER the riots. <BR/><BR/>And it is not the first time the Church has abused the Hindu religion - vide Kolkata, in the 90s, when the Southern Baptist Church called Hindusim a "dark and evil" religion. <BR/>There were no riots then. <BR/>And the church went on with its abuse (I have heard it myself). <BR/>And it has become much better in the recent years - it was horrible earlier.<BR/><BR/>And this exactly is the problem the Hindu majority have - the arrogance and the violence imparted upon it. <BR/><BR/>You have said something about you knowing Hindu ideologies - I am sorry, but I think you know the Gandhian version. <BR/>You know, the Ahimsa one, which forebodes the Hindu of all violence, even at the cost of his self-respect, let alone his life and property. <BR/><BR/>That is NOT the Hindu religion. Gandhiji was right, to a certain point - as the Lord has rightly said, when your honor is at stake, when your property is at stake, you fight back - you always do. <BR/><BR/>So what is the problem we are having here - Hindus are protesting against injustice meted out for the last 950 years ? <BR/><BR/>How many places of worship has other religions had burned ? How many books were banned and torn up?<BR/>How many times were a certain set of people set upon against in history because they were, so to speak "idol-worshippers" ? I am quoting Timur the Lame, of course. <BR/><BR/>The Christians were persecuted in the later periods of the Roman Empire, and they resorted to violence in the streets - within a 70 years or so. <BR/>And rightly so - everybody should have the right to practice their religion without fear of persecution or ridicule. <BR/><BR/>Point is - we haven't had that right for 950 years. So some people might overreact. Instead of vilifying them, they should be listened to. And reasoned with. <BR/><BR/>And I urge you - read the book (it is in Kannada - I read a few parts of the English translation). I am sure if something even remotely scandalous was written against any other religion, firing squads would have been assembled. <BR/><BR/>A Danish newspaper published a horrific cartoon lampooning a religious figure. They have been apologizing for the last seven months (as they should - it was absolute filth). <BR/><BR/>And you ask me why the Church should apologize - why the publishers (they were pastors) should apologize to the Hindus for Satya Darshini ? (The Church did not even have the decency of excommunicating the pastors due to that filth called Satya Darshini.) <BR/><BR/>And then you point to the police and the mobs, without realizing the reason for the police and the mobs are the "so-called victims". <BR/><BR/>Pity.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08131889407576044308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3452007250221117551.post-23822535775775199672008-12-14T09:58:00.000+05:302008-12-14T09:58:00.000+05:30Thanks HAREKRISHNAJI! Neways Joy, i confess I real...Thanks HAREKRISHNAJI! <BR/><BR/>Neways Joy, i confess I really didnt read your posts thoroughly before replying. I came back to reread it and I was kinda disappointed with your comments! <BR/><BR/>Why are you getting so emotional that the church should apologise for what somebody it disowns did or said? We never ask the police or the mobs to apologise for terrorising our communities. By the same token you should not be making unfair demands of others. <BR/><BR/>Also mahgan, why are you so cynical of any non-Hindhus comment? Instead of assuming that I meant to say "Hindhus are evil" why couldnt you see plainly that I meant some videos on youtube sent vibes telling how India needs to be converted to an All hindhu land and in the process wipe out other religions? I just meant that there are videos posted by some very fundamentalist hindhus sowing seeds of hatred in our society. Is it really hard for you to rid of yourself of this bias? I continue everyday to cross examine my concience for this kind of bias that arises from my upbringing. I think everybody should make such an attempt.<BR/><BR/>In the end we are all people, and we would be happier I assure you if we lived in peace and prosperity, rather than holding on to our religions, pride and ego, and live in fear and cynicism.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3452007250221117551.post-28934516946753660152008-12-14T08:26:00.000+05:302008-12-14T08:26:00.000+05:30well saidwell saidHAREKRISHNAJIhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00137830344437763830noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3452007250221117551.post-22389203388854684542008-12-14T01:20:00.000+05:302008-12-14T01:20:00.000+05:30Oh man im so disappointed I typed a really long re...Oh man im so disappointed I typed a really long reply to both you guys and for some reason it didnt show up!!!! I dont think I have the patience to type it up again. <BR/><BR/>Just a few points that I wanted to make. <BR/><BR/>Maghan: Those videos really abound on the internet so if you are honestly looking... u will find them. Also you are misinterpreting the popes remarks when he said plant the christian cross! You can be charged for the same sins you accuse me of! <BR/><BR/>Joy: Yes you need a blog! We could take this discussion or rather exchange of ideas somehwere other than Shobhaa jis backyard lol. Also what exactly do you mean by saying "rightful owners". We are all shareholders of this land... no matter who we are christians muslims hindhus and the whole lot. I btw am atheist althoug I have christian inclinations coz i was brought up as christian. I admire hindhu Ideologies and philosophies too you know... but the way BJP portrays rather destroys these ideas (at times) really is treachorous to the true hindhus i have come across. <BR/><BR/>Also, I wont be in denial, that maybe i am biased because of my upbringing, and thats why I am speaking to you'll, so I hope you dont deny that there could be bias in your views too. That is the whole reason of this discussion. Another thing is that everything about hindhuism isnt all rosy. Casteism, sati system, treatment of women etc. has really been a curse to our society in the past. Not saying other religions cannot be accused of similar crimes. The contributions made by christian missionaries especially in the field of reforms, education and medicine should recieve some recognition or praise. Also our leaders or any leaders for that matter tend to get radicalised somewhere down the road... that is a universal trait. So that is where the problem really lies. So just because BJP claims to hold the banner of hindhuism and speak for all hindhus, please dont support them coz I think they could have really caused havoc if they were ruling at such a communally sensitive time right now. Thank God congress has been more mature and calm in tackling the current situation. <BR/><BR/>I am sorry I couldnt retype all what I wanted to say... but try to understand my point of view. I welcome any reasonable criticism but any misleading remarks like the ones maghan made will destroy the very purpose of an open debate and make us react like the ordinary voice on the street. I hope we are atleast more reasonable and understanding than them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3452007250221117551.post-569789910929603952008-12-13T21:21:00.000+05:302008-12-13T21:21:00.000+05:30Um - mahganI think you got it wrong, buddy. The fi...Um - mahgan<BR/>I think you got it wrong, buddy. <BR/>The first post was the only supposed thing I could find in Youtube where Hindu leaders were exhorting non-tolerance - the others were supposed to be a tongue-in-cheek retort to Anonymous (some of the various Hindu-bashing videos on Youtube).<BR/>I believe you've got me all wrong, man ... I urge you to read my posts - they are all over this post, and the Barkha Dutt related post too. <BR/><BR/>Your point needs no reiteration - the struggle for dominance of this land has been a part of the world's history, if you look at it. <BR/>It's now that a third party - the rightful owners have started to raise their voices. <BR/>That's what is bugging the seculars, who, for some unknown reason, have adopted the servile and corrupt attitude that this country has been saddled with, thanks to the Gandhi-Nehru legacy.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08131889407576044308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3452007250221117551.post-27631034085510874672008-12-13T18:12:00.000+05:302008-12-13T18:12:00.000+05:30Hello Joy,Good to see you taking up cudgels on beh...Hello Joy,<BR/><BR/>Good to see you taking up cudgels on behalf of anonymous. Hindus are always gallant, ever willing to spring to the defence of the defenceless :-). Anonymouse surely needs all the help he can get. <BR/><BR/>I had a premonition that if anonymouse were to provide any evidence for his claim at all, he would change his stand first, and soften it a great deal, and will go on to provide proof for this softened stand. Springing to his defence, you have done so, instead of he.<BR/><BR/>Anonymouse claimed that there are youtube videos calling for **wiping out** Muslims and Christians. This is a very disturbing claim our friend made -- for its subtext is that Hindus are so evil, they want to eliminate all Christians and Muslims. I watched two of those you posted, and in neither do I find evidence for that claim. Please note: we are not looking for proof that there are no Hindu leaders in this country who make rousing speeches against Pakistan. We are looking for youtube videos in which a call is made to wipe out Christians and Muslims.<BR/><BR/>To make it easy for anonymous (and you ;)) I'll water down _my_ stand. I don't need evidence for as Hindu-baiting a claim as the one our friend made. Proof for a far simpler claim will suffice. <BR/><BR/>On Diwali day in 1999, the late Pope John Paul made a speech to his flock in Delhi, and exhorted them to plant the Christian Cross in India -- meaning, "wipe Hinduism out". All of the guys I see in the videos you posted are no more or no less fanatical than the late pope. Yet, here's the simpler claim I am looking for: I'd like to see a video in which these guys invoke symbolism pointing to exterminating Christianity and Islam (if not exterminating Christians and Muslims) in much the same way that the Pope invoked the symbolism of "Christian Cross" to ask his flock to eliminate Hinduism, Sikhism, Jainism etc.<BR/><BR/>Do you have any videos showing that sort of exhortation from Hindu leaders?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3452007250221117551.post-68308586695677551302008-12-13T16:54:00.000+05:302008-12-13T16:54:00.000+05:30My point is, you can always find what you are look...My point is, you can always find what you are looking for, if you narrow your vision enough. <BR/><BR/>As human beings, and good people, we ought to be able to see both sides, not just one, to decide for ourselves. <BR/><BR/>Problem with our media(influenced by INC) is - they only show one, thus spreading hatred and chaos. <BR/><BR/>Also, please check a book called SatyaDarshini, published in Karnataka. <BR/>The Church calls it "work of one man", and disowns it, as does the work of the Southern Baptist Church calling Hinduism a dark religion, and the Church, again, disowns it. <BR/><BR/>But never actually say that they are sorry. <BR/><BR/>The above was in reference to the Karnataka Hindu-Christian riots. <BR/><BR/>If you wish to see where the Church says so, please read the following - <BR/>http://ibnlive.in.com/news/devils-advocate-archbishop-says-ban-bajrang-dal/74560-3-single.html<BR/><BR/>And notice how the question of why the book was actually written comes at the end. <BR/>Not the beginning, which would be premature.<BR/>Or the middle, which would be normal.<BR/>But at the end. <BR/><BR/>But at least CNN-IBN did an interview, and asked the questions.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08131889407576044308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3452007250221117551.post-2147259887652179972008-12-13T16:44:00.000+05:302008-12-13T16:44:00.000+05:30Just for kicks ... Check this http://in.youtube.co...Just for kicks ... <BR/><BR/>Check this <BR/>http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=4LphuoeXXHc<BR/><BR/>Or this ... <BR/>http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=B4LoAAIX4Pc&feature=related<BR/><BR/>Or this ... <BR/>http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=pueVNbuZ2A4&feature=relatedUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08131889407576044308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3452007250221117551.post-70207214438238208622008-12-13T16:30:00.000+05:302008-12-13T16:30:00.000+05:30MahganPlease find the link attached. (Surprised, r...Mahgan<BR/>Please find the link attached. (Surprised, right - me sending it ?)<BR/>http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=y7D-kcayBL0Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08131889407576044308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3452007250221117551.post-41882317210008777032008-12-13T12:10:00.000+05:302008-12-13T12:10:00.000+05:30>>The part about rumour mongering was referi...>>The part about rumour mongering was refering to Maghans remarks that, "Well, actually they say that Digvijay Singh got booted out a second time in MP because he tried to cash in on "Hindu Terror"<BR/><BR/>Dear Anonymouse, that's what my friends from Indore say. That voters got very pissed off with Digvijay Singh's extremist allegations invoking "Hindu terror" and Malegaon<BR/><BR/>Many people -- especially media clowns -- are claiming BJP lost Delhi because the party made an issue of Muslim terror. You don't see such claims -- which present no scientific survey as evidence -- as rumour-mongering, do you? Let me guess your jaundiced view then: punditry explaining BJP's defeat is true; but any explanation of defeat of Congress or Left is "rumour-mongering". Right?<BR/><BR/>I beg to differ, my friend. You need to look at election results objectively, not with your prejudices.<BR/><BR/>By the way, more here on Digvijay Singh's loose-cannon act:<BR/><BR/>http://offstumped.nationalinterest.in/2008/11/20/chronology-of-digvijay-singhs-accusations-on-hindu-terror/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3452007250221117551.post-47813001977127667222008-12-13T11:21:00.000+05:302008-12-13T11:21:00.000+05:30To AnonymousMea culpa. Didn't realize you were ref...To Anonymous<BR/>Mea culpa. Didn't realize you were referring to that. However, I will point out that I have not seen it anywhere - Maghan's post is the first time I saw it being mentioned, hence me comment. <BR/>I would not proclaim to know everything, but am a voracious reader of everything that gets printed (TV bores me and I am an insomniac), so if I did not see it, chances are it did not get printed in the major newspapers.<BR/>If it did, I will take the statement back and offer my deepest apologies for that remark.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08131889407576044308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3452007250221117551.post-65731781595458657992008-12-13T10:59:00.000+05:302008-12-13T10:59:00.000+05:30To the reasonable AnonymousHope your exams went we...To the reasonable Anonymous<BR/>Hope your exams went well. <BR/><BR/>Anyways, thank you for reading my posts. No, I don't have a blog of my own (maybe I should get one - huh ?)<BR/><BR/>You hit the nail right on the head - the key is to maintain the balance. <BR/><BR/>And you are absolutely right - I have seen the YouTube thing (disgusting), and also the numerous blogs and websites dedicated to this matter.<BR/><BR/>Yet, nobody goes to analyze why these blogs or websites or messages are being spread. <BR/>Why the people known historically for their tolerance are becoming intolerant as days pass ?<BR/><BR/>There are Arundhati Roys and Teesta Setalvads who will scream about minority rights, even for the rights of criminals. They will point out that we need to analyze their needs and understand their pain. <BR/>And they are right - we should.<BR/><BR/>But who will analyze our rights - the rights of the majority, the rights of someone suppressed and held hostage (at least in the minds of a lot of people) in their own country for centuries ? <BR/>The minority talks about decades of injustice to justify their repeated terror attacks, but why can't the majority point to the centuries of <BR/>injustice ? <BR/>15 years of continuous attacks (in just 50 years - don't have the time to go back) cannot be called minority terror, and yet 2 blasts is repeated Hindu Terror, ad nauseum, ad infinitum ? <BR/><BR/>Point is, the majority is frustrated. Yet, without trying to understand the reason for their frustration, they are being vilified.<BR/><BR/>Now, how do we fix it ? <BR/>Simple - get the Army in there. The only apolitical institution in the country needs to be allowed to instill law and order in the nation.<BR/>You cannot have secularism without Law and Order.<BR/>You cannot have tolerance without Law and Order.<BR/>You cannot have a nation without Law and Order.<BR/><BR/>You cannot have Law and Order with our esteemed political parties.<BR/><BR/>Read the following - very interesting..<BR/>http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/dec/12mumterror-unless-you-sacrifice-you-cant-fight-terror.htmUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08131889407576044308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3452007250221117551.post-51517702950453700152008-12-13T10:47:00.000+05:302008-12-13T10:47:00.000+05:30To the Anonymous who wants to put me behind barsKe...To the Anonymous who wants to put me behind bars<BR/><BR/>Keep it up mate. <BR/>You want to put me behind bars for telling the truth about Gandhiji - historical facts, examined and approved by more than one historian, all of who are of impeccable credentials ? <BR/>Go right ahead. <BR/>And also, make sure you give a megaphone to the Arundhati Roys whose sole purpose is to demean Hinduism by any cost and sell this country to foreigners, which they are already achieving, thanks to mindset like yours.<BR/>Arabs in the 9th century.<BR/>Portugese in the 16th century.<BR/>British in the 18th century. <BR/>And we still won't learn. <BR/>Well - China has never occupied us - maybe they're next. You'll have fun, I am sure.<BR/>Me - I'll be in prison (or something else), so I don't care. <BR/>I would rather hold up my self-respect and try to honor my heritage and roots, damn with the consequences, rather than carry on with some phony hypocrisy. <BR/>Good luck to you, though !!!Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08131889407576044308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3452007250221117551.post-43095325168751735992008-12-13T03:48:00.000+05:302008-12-13T03:48:00.000+05:30The part about rumour mongering was refering to Ma...The part about rumour mongering was refering to Maghans remarks that, "Well, actually they say that Digvijay Singh got booted out a second time in MP because he tried to cash in on "Hindu Terror". To which you made no delay in saying,"Is that true ? How strange that our "secular" media has not picked THAT one up."<BR/><BR/>Not that it matters and it really isnt a big deal... but a lot of Congress bashing in an extremely distorted way goes on on the internet which upsets me. Youtube is filled with videos bashing Indian secularism and how muslims and christians should be wiped out. The user "Indianmediawatch" is one such poster to look out for. Well he may be a retard, but it shocks me of the number of people who leave comments agreeing to his point of view. Really, I am no fan of congress as well, so I shouldnt care as much as I do. :) <BR/><BR/>Joy do you have a blog?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3452007250221117551.post-33432800039472180582008-12-13T03:37:00.000+05:302008-12-13T03:37:00.000+05:30^^^ The above Anonymous was not me. lol. Thanks fo...^^^ The above Anonymous was not me. lol. <BR/><BR/>Thanks for the in depth and elaborate answer! I must confess I just skimmed through it as I just finished writing my aeroelasticity exam and have exhausted all brain power for the day. :]<BR/><BR/>I am no match for you when it comes to war of words or even knowledge. But I will try and make my point. I believe that in a society as diverse as ours, we can never aspire for that utopian dream of democracy unless backward and minority societies are given some sort of support to be on par with the others. The powerful otherwise will continue to dominate and suppress the others. I have seen and witnessed this happen in my home town and thus, I speak. What happened in Orissa is also a reflection of how the security, integrity and prosperity of minority communities are threatened even to this day. <BR/><BR/>Its a tough balance though, to know how to give that much needed support to the minorities without infuriorating the majority community. In attempting to do so, (maybe they have failed, or maybe they are dawning it into a false garb to gain votes), the INC has my admiration. I find it hard to explain my point of view, but hope you understand what I am saying. I am all in favour of equality, but again, we arent all created equals, are we? <BR/><BR/>Thanks for your patience in replying to me earlier and hope you do so again. :) <BR/><BR/>Cheers<BR/><BR/>- AnonymousAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3452007250221117551.post-33395983159888369522008-12-12T21:37:00.000+05:302008-12-12T21:37:00.000+05:30There should be a strict law in India that if you ...There should be a strict law in India that if you speak or write against Mahatma Gandhi then that's anti-national activity and there should be punishment same as the punishment for anti-national activity. If that happens then all Sanghis and Bajrangis will be behind bars including the prospective PM Advani and Mahatma Modi...lolAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3452007250221117551.post-45770619962328325782008-12-12T20:11:00.000+05:302008-12-12T20:11:00.000+05:30AnonymousI see you have not responded to my refuta...Anonymous<BR/>I see you have not responded to my refutation of your allegations against me. <BR/>Anyways - let me go ahead and answer your second question. <BR/><BR/>I agree with a major school of thought that INC has been instrumental in perversing the Hindu idea of secularism. <BR/>INC was responsible (it still is) for the Hindu-Muslim divide with its policy of appeasement starting with the support of the Khilafat movement in 1921, right down to implementing different sets of different sets of laws for different religious group, whereas the concept of secularism is based on "SEPERATION OF RELIGION AND STATE". <BR/>I can discuss my point in detail, would you be willing to listen. <BR/>Since I have my doubts about your capacity to discuss sensitive matters with an open mind (and please prove me wrong - I'll be the first one to hang my head in shame), let me conclude by quoting a few people who are definitely more famous and eloquent than I can ever aspire to be - <BR/>1. "Under the socialist regime of Jawaharlal Nehru and his family successors the state was intolerant, restrictive and grotesquely bureaucratic. That has largely changed (though much bureaucracy remains), and the natural tolerance of the Hindu mind-set has replaced quasi-Marxist rigidity.'"<BR/>- Paul Johnson (Historian) Want to Prosper? Then be Tolerant,' Forbes, June 21, 2004<BR/><BR/>2. The forgotten fact that the Morarji Desai government had moved the 45th Constitutional Amendment Bill in 1978 which, among other issues, defined secularism as equal respect to all religions; that bill was passed in the Lok Sabha, but turned down by the Congress majority in the Rajya Sabha. - Arvind Lavakare, rediff.com, referencing actual data<BR/>http://in.rediff.com/news/2004/jun/09arvind.htm<BR/><BR/>3. The so-called 'secularism' rampant in India is a perversion of that reasonable idea: in India it is contrived to mean the active involvement of the State in supporting certain religions (Islam, Christianity and Marxism) and oppressing others (Hinduism, Sikhism, Buddhism, Jainism). Religion has become the primary consideration in all sorts of civil affairs: in anything from the reporting of news to running educational institutions.<BR/>- Rajeev Srinivasan <BR/>http://www.rediff.com/news/2004/jul/05rajeev.htm<BR/><BR/>4. "[India] isn't secular. As a political framework, secularism requires that all citizens are equal before the law, regardless of their religious affiliation. That is a definitional minimum. An Indian secularist would therefore first of all be found on the barricades in the struggle for a common civil code, against the existing legal apartheid between Hindus, Muslims, Christians and Parsis. But the only major party to demand the enactment of a common civil code, as mandated by the Constitution, happens to be the BJP. On election eve, the others run to the Shahi Imam to pledge their firm commitment to the preservation of the Shari'a for Muslims. In the West and in the Muslim world, the upholding of religion-based communal legislation is rightly called anti-secularist."<BR/>- Dr. Elst Keonard, noted Indologist <BR/><BR/>I suppose if these people are not knowledgeable enough for you, I'll take your time (if you're still wih me) for a bit more.<BR/><BR/>5. 'It is impossible to believe that Gandhi and his adherents are not aware that this claim of the Mahomedans to be judged only by the Law of the Koran, is a claim which is the fons et origo of all Khilafat claims of whatever kind. It is well to be clear about this, for not only does the acceptance of the claim mean the death knell of the British Empire or Indo-British Commonwealth, WHATEVER NAME WE MAY CARE TO GIVE TO THE GREAT FRATERNITY OF NATIONS TO WHICH WE BELONG, BUT SPECIFICALLY AS REGARDS INDIA IT MEANS A REAL DENIAL OF SWARAJ. FOR IT INVOLVES MAHOMEDAN RULE AND HINDU SUBJECTION.' <BR/>- Sir C. Sankaran Nair (a Member of the Viceroy's Executive Council ) - book name 'Gandhi and Anarchy' - 1922.<BR/><BR/>You might say these people were haters, so let me leave you with a quote from Gandhiji himself - <BR/><BR/>6. "But, just as I respect the cow, so do I respect my fellowmen. A man is just as useful as a cow<BR/>no matter whether he be a Mahomedan or a Hindu. Am I, then, to fight with or kill a Mahomedan<BR/>in order to save a cow? In doing so, I would become an enemy of the Mahomedan as well as of<BR/>the cow. Therefore, the only method I know of protecting the cow is that I should approach my<BR/>Mahomedan brother and urge him for the sake of the country to join me in protecting her. If he<BR/>would not listen to me I should let the cow go for the simple reason that the matter is beyond my<BR/>ability. If I were overfull of pity for the cow, I should sacrifice my life to save her but not take<BR/>my brother’s. This, I hold, is the law of our religion."<BR/>- M.K.Gandhi (Hind Swaraj, 1909 - English translation 1938)<BR/>(Cow is to be read metaphorically here)<BR/><BR/>And, finally, from quotes to actions, I'll leave you with one - <BR/><BR/>1. Gandhiji's hunger strike in Calcutta during the Great Calcutta Killings(1946)to stop the Hindus retaliating against the Muslims (ably assisted by Hussein Suhrawardy), yet he refused to do anything remotely close during the '46 Noakhali riots, which was more butchery than rioting.<BR/>- source - R.C.Majumdar (Indian Freedom Movement)<BR/>2. His initial refusal, then downgrading the effects of 1921 Moplah rebellion in Malabar, which left thousands homeless, with the Moplahs establishing the Caliphate there. (albeit for a short while, with Lord Reading suppressing them with great brutality.<BR/>- source - Sir C.Sankaran Nair<BR/>3. His support of the Ali brothers in the Khilafat movement in which they wanted to restore the Caliphate in Turkey, and also his support of the same Ali brothers in inviting the Amir of Afghanistan to attack India and establish Islamic rule.<BR/>And his steadfast refusal to even accept the proposals of Subhash Bose to proclaim support for him and the Indian National Army.<BR/>- source - R.C.Majumdar (Indian Freedom Movement)<BR/><BR/>4. His launch of fast-onto-death in 1948 due to refusal by Sardar Patel to pay 55 crores to Pakistan fearing that Pakistan would use the money to fund the war in Kashmir.<BR/>Patel acceded to Gandhiji's request and sent the money to Islamabad.<BR/>Which was promptly used to fund the '48 Indo-Pak war.<BR/><BR/><BR/>The above was most definitely not to criticize Gandhiji as a person or as a saintly figure in any way. <BR/><BR/>It was just to indicate that his interpretation of the Gita, in which he found only Pacifism, was completely wrong, since Gita also teaches the path of fighting to protect your honor and country, as Tilak, Sri Aurobindo Bose and Swami Vivekananda so correctly interpreted. <BR/><BR/>And it was Gandhiji who influenced the nation's policies and mindset - a nation which, bereft of his complete faith in renunciation of all worldly things, a nation of common people, and not saints, now stands in a mess so deep that it does not know how to get out of.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08131889407576044308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3452007250221117551.post-76634254052023112962008-12-12T19:12:00.000+05:302008-12-12T19:12:00.000+05:30Kiran..NYC Aah ... Wicked for you, Good and Pious ...Kiran..NYC <BR/>Aah ... <BR/>Wicked for you, Good and Pious for someone, Work for poor ol' me ... <BR/>Gah !!!Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08131889407576044308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3452007250221117551.post-25727077374812609032008-12-12T18:33:00.000+05:302008-12-12T18:33:00.000+05:30Joy Jaani,You can take me out of Mumbai but you ca...Joy Jaani,<BR/><BR/>You can take me out of Mumbai but you cant take the Mumbaiiya out of me. Idherich is Mumbaispeak for ... right here.<BR/><BR/>Jihad is directed at everyone dahlink!<BR/><BR/>I really need a drink or something now. Im feeling a little giddy today. Thankgod its friday... TGIF and all that!<BR/><BR/>So who here has weekend plans of the good and pious or the wicked sort? <BR/><BR/>I vote for wicked all the way!Another Kiran In NYChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15949641865013106368noreply@blogger.com