Wednesday, December 17, 2008

Why make Antulay the villain...??

Me thinks Antulay's critics protest too much!! Definitely something black in the lentils this time. I saw several worthies frothing at the mouth on television tonight, and some of them were hyper ventilating to such an extent, I thought they deserved Filmfare Awards as drama queens. Antulay is no political novice. He is also a barrister and does not make rash or reckless statements without realising the repercussions\implications. If he is asking some pointed questions about Hemant Karkare's death, he is entirely entitled to do so. But instead of responding to his queries, his political opponents have gone into overdrive, attacking Antulay and accusing him of being a Pakistani sympathiser\apologist\agent. What rubbish!! Antulay has raised pertinent points - others have raised them, too. Jawab do!! Howcome three top cops were gunned down so easily by two terrorists who were apparently hiding behind some trees near my old college , St. Xavier's?? Why would Karkare and Salaskar get into the same police van , that too near Cama Hospital?? These are basic professional no-nos in an emergency of the kind Mumbai faced on that ghastly night. Antulay is demanding plausible explanations - who ordered those two guys to try and speed away together? Where were they headed?Who fired those bullets that killed both within seconds?? The public has the right to know. To suggest that the 78-year-old Antulay is doing it for political gain sounds like a cheap distractionary tactic from the main issue.
By painting Antulay as a Paki stooge playing a dangerous game back home is actually a smart ploy to stop anybody from getting to the horrible truth. Agreed Antulay is no angel and has a pretty dodgy record himself. But would he at this late stage in his political twilight years make such a strong statement without any basis? Assuming he is playing dirty politics - that still does not answer the question of why Karkare and Salaskar were where they were that night, and why they had to die. Frankly, it is a question that has haunted me as well. It just seems like such a dumb ass thing to do for cops of their seniority. Karkare was facing several death threats and was under tremendous pressure while doing his job. Salaskar knew too much and had his own share of enemies. It just seems like one hell of a coincidence that two Pakistani strangers arrived on an inflatable dinghy and effortlessly shot Mumbai's ace cops like they were sitting ducks with zero experience, when in fact, both were first rate officers and crack shots themselves. Strange.... very strange. But stranger still that it was Antulay who threw the first stone.... and look what it has led to. Howls of outrage and protest may succeed in silencing Antulay for now. But he has certainly managed to shake up a lot of netas.... I wonder why??? Because there is more to the story than meets the eye?? Go figure....

72 comments:

milidb@yahoo.com said...

The death of the two cops in such a way has certainly merited many questions....way to go Shobha De....please keep on probing....we need answers.

NAT said...

NAT said

Agree with you in toto.
Had a lump im my throat, when these 3 top Officials were declared dead.
They were sitting ducks.
I am sure there are many who would agree with Antulay (the Cement King)but have no voice. We tend to lean with the Masses/Majority.
We do not appreciate the TRUTH, that's the reason we are in the pathetic state.
Dal me kuch Kala hai.

Double Seven said...

De,

What are you are Antulay want to say afterall?
What is the doubt in mind?
Why is it in mind?
How will it serve any purpose?
What is the purpose?
How could there be any conspiracy theory to now judge that in fact Karkare and Saluskar along with Kamte were actually killed by some one else and not those two terrorists outside the Cama Hospital?
This is what you guys are tryna say.
And they were not hiding outside your college? Who told you that?
They were driving down to Cama Hospital. from 'somewhere'. That 'somehwere' is unknown to me but they were definitely not at your college, both the terrorist clan and themselves!

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77

Anonymous said...

Antulay must have gone mad,i dont know how can he say so ?we all know the facts that terrorists killed them and took the patrolling van and again shooted people .

Anonymous said...

What do you think, who got benefited with the sudden death of Karkareji? You got it right, it's saffron guys. Antulay should not have put his doubts by himself, he being a muslim it makes his case communal and him pakistani. He should have found some other way to bring his doubts, because now these saffron guys got another chance to politicise the terrors issue. When Mr. Karkare was alive and bringing the Hindutva terrorists in front of the people one by one he was anti-national for them, now when he is not here they are offering one crore rupees to his family.
There are many questions arises with the whole 26/11 episode. How could the three top officers got shot in the very beginning of the fight, in fact they were not even engaged in the fight that time. Why this happen just a couple of days after he got threat due to Malegaon investigation? What happened of those laptops that he had found from Dayanand Pandey which was suppose to have many secrets and he was suppose to present it before the court? Why Karkare needed to hand over a secret letter to his Colonel friend from Nagpur about the Malegaon investigation and what does it contain? It should be brought in front of the people.If Saffron guys can do Malegaon, Mehrauli, Modassa blasts and God knows where else and pretending like it was done by muslim guys, then they can do anything. I see a bigger conspiracy behind all this. Whatever is happening in India in the recent time is certainly a political issue, that's why it is happening right before the elections. Saffron guys can go at any extent to get into the power, now after their defeat in Delhi and Rajasthan, they might be planning something more, so just watch there might be more coming. There should be proper investigation that whether Mr. Karkare really got shot from terroists bullets or otherwise.

Double Seven said...

Anonymous above-

It HIGHLY seems to me that you are yet another one of those who believes that 9/11 was an "inside job", jihad is a war "khuda kay liye" and you think SIMI should not have been banned. Those are QUITE evident from the way your rhetoric is guiding me to believe in! lol.

Hindu extremists might be the biggest hooligans on earth. They might be having some really bad-ass religiously chauvinistic view against the minorities in India, but I have no reason to believe why they would go about killing their own people! I know for a fact that Karkare was an honest and ethical investigator to the Malegaon blasts which involved Hindu extremist groups. But I don't think that they would have known Karkare being in that van and on that plightful occasion they would have prepared themselves to kill him so instantaneously.
I am a Hindu and you are a Muslim (which is quite evident from your hatred against Hindus; sorry for pre-notioning you). But you do need to also be pragmatic in life- that is to say you need to go by the practicality and factual evidence to prove your point. Conspiracy theories are bound to pop from somewhere or the other, from some part of the religious believers to some part of the political groups. But this kind of cruel atrocity against Karkare can not be done by Hindu extremists. I have that much faith on them. If it is to be proven otherwise, I will be the first person to change my religion to something else- preferebly Buddhism or something. I would be the most cruel hater of Modi and Togadia and the RSS as whole. Trust me on that.

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77

Anonymous said...

Why can't the Hindu extremists do such cruel atocity against Karkare, didn't they do it against Mahatma Gandhi, who was that guy? was he SIMI guy or IM guy? Aren't they doing it in riots against innocents? Are they really peace loving and non violent people? No muslim hate Hindus, it's VHP's, BD's, RSS's ideology that they hate.

Another Kiran In NYC said...

Okay, as much as I want to give Antulay the benefit of doubt, in all good concience I cannot. His past actions and political shenanigans are enough to make me look for venality and self interest in all his actions.


Being a Barrister is no proof of ethical responsibility or of being the sharpest tool in the shed. Recent history has recorded that plenty of Barristers have not been the most ethical or principled people in daily or political dealings. A certain Mr. Patel (no, not Sardar Patel) is one that comes to mind immediatly. He was colorful, very bright and a great lawyer but certainly no paragon of ethical standards. There are many like him. Do I single Barristers out for approbation? Not really, because I realise that Barristers are equally succeptable to venality and dishonesty... oh just as much as anyone else.

As for why would Antulay create any controversies at such an advanced age? Ummmmm.... ambition never dies, at any age. That is why we have the desi tradition of Netas who are for the most part past thier "use by" date. I am quite sure Antulay is still hoping for statues to be erected to him in Raigad and Ratnagiri and Sindhudurg and Malvan and Malegaon or whatever he deems to be his strongholds. He is probably still wanting to be cited in Kokani school textbooks of the future as a statesman. Do I grudge him ambition? Ofcourse not, but it would be nice if he was to make his reputation based on the good that he will do or did already (I am not seeing that and I have looked hard). His quickest, surest bet to be seen as worth his job as Minorities Minister, is to be seen as the great questioner, cast doubt and there by being crowned "savior of the minorities".

According to press reports, this is the same man who has reputedly suggested the same idea over and over in every instance of terrorism in his strongholds in Maharashtra... that security forces were barking up the wrong tree and that the terrorists or terrorist abettors in Kokan, were Hindus disguised as Muslims to create communal division. Meanwhile his own kokan strongholds are cited over and over (in intelligence reports released to the press) as a haven for criminal elements aiding and abbeting the transfer of arms and explosives and support for terrorists of all sorts (RDX landing there etc).

While it is a good thing to look at every situation from every angle, Antulay in his wisdom and experience could have displayed discretion, asked investigators to look at his thoughts in detail and then gone public after he had recieved some official confirmation of negation of his thought process. Such public statements at this time is all about creating a "Antulay Saviour of the Minorities Brand" under the umbrella of communalism.

Another Kiran In NYC said...

Fifth statement from the bottom should read...

"official confirmation OR negation of his"

Another Kiran In NYC said...

As to why three senior Police Officers of so much experience should place themselves in a vulnerable spot...

I can only go by press reports and deduce that human error and neglect of emergency protocols by the officers themselves proved fatal. For police officers who had many times in the past, faced tough and violent situations before and come out alive at the other end of it, perhaps there was a huge sense of immediacy of action and a sense of invulnerability.

Why were all three at the location? CST had just happened and the terrorists were obviously not there anymore. They were being chased by lathi weilding policemen into this alley. They had ambushed people in a hospital. People knew exactly how many terrorists they were dealing with unlike the hotel.

If I was a police officer and a Hospital and a Hotel had been taken over by terrorists, I know that in the absense of rigid protocol I would have gone to the Hospital first to see what I could do to nab a finite number of bad guys and rescue patients in a hospital rather than a hotel with more unknowns.

That all three had the same idea was unfortunate and disastrous. There was a complete breakdown of command and control that was even more disasterous. But they all tried to do the right thing, just possibly not the safest thing.

Anonymous said...

Wow what a intelligence piece.. we have problem in society where we start jumping at conclusion without investigation is completed or even without considering all facts. I can put conspiracy theory that somebody from Media did this because they wanted to get the high TRPs , they have done this in past as well .. will this hold water.. comeon learned people use u'r brain and ask questions that do not divide the country.

Just because people critized karkare doesnt mean that they will attack him. Just because media criticizes Narendra modi does not mean media would kill Modi.

Q1: Why three officers were in single van , could someone would have forced them to do so ?
Being top officers, I am sure they would have known gravity of situation and most likely those being top officers could have sat in van to discuss the deadly situation.. probably wouldn't have imagined their fate will be this. Looking as an outsider might sound stupid .. but same question could be asked why all NSG commandos were brought to Mumbai on Single plane .. what if some tragedy could have attacked the plane. Its easy to comment from outside .. but I feel these officers were victims of that particular moment.

Q2: How come all three officers died without being able to fight back
Again, this must have been out of their imagination that something of this nature they would have to face. Even before these guys could reach to their guns .. continous shooting at point range from the AK-47 would have taken them down. I am sure ... even American style police would not have survived this firing.

Q3: Was there some involvement of Malegaon attackers or some party
Now someone needs to think practically about this. Salaskar has killed more than 78 gangsters of course he will have many more enemies than anyone else but no one from underworld has dared to take on Police .. with same logic, I do not think so called Hindu terrorists would have done anything ... even if they had tried why would they try on the dreadful day ...this kind of attack definitely needs to plan and execute very well.


Of course, we need to know answers for all the questions we have in mind .. but these questions should be part of the investigation and not public outcry.

We need to start trusting our Police officers and their investigation.

Anonymous said...

it is obvious it was inside job.. not terriorts.. most hinud leaders in india are assisting these attacks.. and there is nothing surprising about it..
indian politicans are the ones with no soul.. given it to devil.. long before ...
everyone can rant and rant.. nothing will change in india NEVER

Anonymous said...

It's not just Antulay who thinks so, there are many people who got doubt as soon as they came to know about the news of the sudden death of Karkare and that was the first big news of that deadful event. Everybody is just waiting to come out of the mourning and shock, otherwise the very first doubt came in everybody's mind is Karkare's death. I am sure Togadia and company must have been the happiest people after his death. There could not be conspiracy for the whole attack but particularly his death doubts most of the people.

Anonymous said...

All you guys fighting for no reason... I have just this to say:

Everbody should have a write to raise a question or doubt on any issue.

Why does it always have to raise protest, criticism, brandishing and turn communal? Let people ask questions, and let answers be provided to them.

That is all. End of story.

Now shut up and go home.

Double Seven said...

It's the Islamic sharia law and Islamic chauvinism that the VHP, RSS and the Bajrang Dal people hate about Muslims. They hate SIMI for obvious reason, for promoting Islamic extremism of the most brutal kind in the minds of young teenagers in their madrasa in UP.
These so called extremist Hindu organizations are working for their rights, within their boundaries, within the Hindu state. They are hardcore anti-secular fanatics. And so are Congress- they are pseudo-secular, a lighter term to describe their political agenda. They coined the term 'Hindu terror' first when the Malegaon blasts took place. They are no less- they communalised terrorism just like the BJP.

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77

Double Seven said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
sydney said...

Good post. Eye-opening points. That's all I have to say. :)

Double Seven said...

To all the Anonymouses-

HAVE SOME GUTS TO COME OUT IN FRONT. DISCLOSE YOUR IDENTITIES.

It will be better for all the apponents of thIS conspiracy theory which has been ignited by Antulay to better address those emotional and religion-driven individuals.

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77

Anonymous said...

To Double Seven,
Disclose identities like you did, Double Seven? By the way you don't need to disclose yoour identity your comments tell all about you SANGHI.

Anonymous said...

"It just seems like one hell of a coincidence that two Pakistani strangers arrived on an inflatable dinghy and effortlessly shot Mumbai's ace cops "

Don't agree that they were strangers. The bombay attack was a well planned one. The ones at Taj knew the hotel plans inside out....
It could have been the same here too.

Secondly a politician is a politician.. no matter what his age. Personal interest above everything else is their motto and everyone and their dog knows that by now. So lets not get into that.

Yes, there should be a probe, to show clearly that this was an outside job but we feel, couldn't have been carried out without people from within the country giving some support.

Anonymous said...

26/11 when I heard and saw on tell the gunning of these officer suddenly the same thought crept into my mind and conveyed it and was chided for my wild imagination today I feel somewhat relieved that I am ok and a normal person and not a freak as my folks at home think

Double Seven said...

If I am at the other extreme end of 'SANGHI'-NESS, you think you are acting neutral? I highly think NOT.
First see your comments, how blatantly you have accused Hindu extremists to be involved in some way or the other. You are trying to tame the name of RSS and VHP. Do you even know when it was established? 1965!! And they don't have any AK-47s. :P

PS: At least I have a name which could be used for addressing. You don't even have an identity. I fear if that is the case in real life as well! :)

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77

darkside said...

Ms. De,

I concur with you that there is probably more to the story than meets the eye besides, there are inconsistencies in the accounts as yet unexplained.

But, consider this:
"Antulay has been fulminating since Tuesday evening when the Cabinet cleared the bills for a National Investigation Agency and amendments to the Unlawful Activities (Prevention) Act. He expressed apprehension that tougher anti-terror laws could well be misused, hinting that minorities were in the line of fire."....this from the Times of India, dated Dec 18.

Few other comments:
"To suggest that the 78-year-old Antulay is doing it for political gain sounds like a cheap distractionary tactic from the main issue."
----A politician doing something without a vested interest is a rarity and if the past is an indicator, you did mention his "dodgy" record.

I hope the investigation is thorough, transparent and without political manipulation.

Onthewingsofadream said...

I donno what to say about the people who judge only by the religion of a person .
He has righlty asked few valid questions that need investigation and answers .. he might have a motive behind it , but that cannot sideline the importance of these unanswered question ...

Anonymous said...

Ms De,

I am not sure you respond to comments on your blog- nevertheless I would like to point out a few facts and ask you a few questions, which I hope you would respond to.

1. Firstly Ajmal Kasab has confessed that he and his accomplice shot dead Karkare. This has also been corrorobrated by eye-witness accounts, if we go by media reports. Are you suggesting that these are all made up?.

2. "But would he at this late stage in his political twilight years make such a strong statement without any basis?"

FYI-Arjun Singh, in his twilight years embarked on implementing the contreversial reservation policy in IIT's and IIM's. Are you suggesting that we can take all statements made by senile politicians to be the absolute truth?

3. "Howls of outrage and protest may succeed in silencing Antulay for now"

Are you sure this is true?. I watched excerpts of his speech in parliment and I must that by normal parlimentary standards,members of the opposition were more than willing to let him complete his speech. And he has been giving interviews to more than one channel subsequently. If anything, some people can accuse him of publicity mongering.

"By painting Antulay as a Paki stooge"

I have not heard a single politicain from the opposition using such words- in fact barring statements from Arun Jaitley and Rajiv pratap Rudy, there hasn't been a significant hue and cry about this issue from the opposition. I would be glad if you could substantatie your statements with links referencing the hue and cry you are talking about.

hitch writer said...

There we go !!!

We will now fight, accuse, blame, point fingers and indulge in endless debates and conspiracy theories...

As times passes, Pakistan is feeling better, and less squeezed diplomatically...

Apart from making angry statements "Pakistan Must Act" Wonder what Pranab Mukherjee is doing....

Wash the linen of our own house later... first go after the culprits...

Will we learn ??

Anonymous said...

^^^ multi-tasking... that is the solution!

Anonymous said...

Double seven - couldn't you chose a name less cornier? lol... and does my anonymousiness remind you how corny your name is?
Evenutally even you are anonymous, or do you actually call yourself Double seven in real life... o0o0ooOoo

Anyways, I would any day choose what you call the "pseudo-secularists" over what I call "anti-seculatirsts". Until we have any other alternatives, lets not bicker about this matter and move on.

Thank you

Pratap said...

Shobha

I am and have always been a fan.

I have always felt you articulated my thoughts as an Indian and a Mumbaikar. More so after the attacks.

However, this time I have to disagree with you.

- We have eye witnesses including a policeman who was the only one alive in the police Qualis who gave a credible enough account of what happened that night
- Why does Antulay insist (in the press conference and then on CNN IBN) that they should have been going to the Taj, Oberoi, Nariman House? People had been killed at CST and Cama Hospital. Sadanand Date was injured at Cama Hosp. The cops were clueless as to what was going on and the first instinct would've been to rush to the site nearest to where they were at that time.
- Do you really think the Mumbai Police had protocols in place that forbade 2 IPS officers and 1 Senior Insp to jump into a van and drive to a war zone (they didnt know it was one)?!!!!! I dont think any such protocols existed.
- The very notion that someone else killed these three or specifically Mr Karkare is as absurd as the notion that the CIA+Mossad were behind 9-11 so that the US could attack Afghanistan + Iraq.
- If P Chidambaram, Pranab Mukherjee, Kapil Sibal had raised these questions, I would have given them a second and even third thought. But Antulay?!!!!!!!!!
His barrister's degree lost its relevance 25 years ago with the Indira Gandhi Pratibha Pratishthan case. Definitely past his use-by date.

I just don't understand why the parties (of all hues) can't put Arjun Singh, Antulay, Advani, Karunanidhi to pasture. Other than his seat in Kulaba in the Konkan WHAT does Antulay bring to the table? Or is it that he knows where all the Cong (i.e. Gandhi family!) skeletons are buried (Dawood connections, smuggling happening in his constituency, etc.)

And the Cong spokesman Tom Vadakkan (sp?) last night took a page from the Karl Rove book of spin: Instead of distancing himself from Antulay's statement, he lambasted the Opposition for "causing a distraction" when important national security bills were being debated. It doesn't get lower than this.
This leads me to believe that Antulay didn't act on his own but with the full knowledge of "Madam" and the rest of that crowd and it was a trial balloon. Meant to balance out the passing of the UAPA which is sure to offend the minorities and their self-proclaimed "pseudo-secular" appeasers.

Honestly, Shobha: I was looking forward to your take on Antulay's outburst.
I am very very disappointed.

Digistrom said...

Not to belittle a man who lost his life serving the country, but a quote from Maximum City (Pg. 185) to set your facts straight.

[quote] Husain asks Salaskar if he has ever been in any kind of personal danger during an encounter. Never, he says. The trick is to fire on the targets 'before retaliatory fire'. He says that he or his men got very close to the target before firing. He is not a good marksman, he admits, but he has never had to fire from a distance of more than twenty-five feet. [end quote]

So are we suggesting that some mysterious, shadowy elements got into action in a heartbeat and manipulated three high profile officers and murdered them in synch with the terror attacks?

What is so hard to believe about two Kalashnikovs wiping out three men seated in one car?

Why is it so unbelievable that three men whose job it is to confer and co-ordinate got into the same car and got ambushed?

The first reports were from Leopold and CST, what is so unbelievable about them getting ambushed near Cama hospital?

There is a time and a place for conspiracy theories and it is not when we have to be _completely_ united to fight a very real enemy. To give Antulay any sort or credence is not only utterly foolish, it is also downright irresponsible. I'd also call it sensationalist/opportunist but your track record has shown me that can't be true so we'll just have to jot it down to naiveté.

Double Seven said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Double Seven said...

@ Digistorm-

A very coherent and articulate way of positioning your disagreement with this conspiracy theory which is now ignited by Antulay. Earlier it was the Pakis who proclaimed that Kasab can't be Pakistani because he was wearing a sacred Hindu thread on his right hand wrist! Preposterous isn't it?
And by the way, there are over 2.5 million Hindus in Pakistan just FYI.

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77

Anonymous said...

Being a newbie to ur blog i read only a few posts uptil now.
Wat strikes me as i read ur posts is -This blog is all about:Cinema,Fashion,Parties etc etc,the so called outer world that u live in.
I want to ask you a few things
When u go for the inaguration of an 'Orphanage' or an 'old age home'
did it nytime occur to you to actually do something for the 'society' apart from giving a few glances to those innocent creatures or the helpless,sick old people?
Didnt u ever feel like visiting the same orphanage the next day and actually taking up a responsible task that would benefit the society in some way?
Life is not all about living for oneself and then writing for thousands to read.
It is actually sitting up and doing something for the society

Joy said...

To the Anonymous Who Hates Hindus

Let me give a little bit of empirical historical evidence of Islamic persecution of Hindus -

Pre-Islamic Era - Timer, MihirGul, Toraman
900 - 1600 A.D - Ghazni, Ghor, Ala-ud-din, Babur, Aurangzeb

1600 - 1945 A.D - British, Dutch, Portugese, Nader Shah

Post 1945 - '46 Noakhali, Partition, '47, '65 Indo-Pak wars, '62 China, '71 Yahya and Tikka, '71 War, >'89 Kashmiri seperatism, '92 Babri, '93 Bombay blasts, '02 Akshardham, '02 Gujarat, '08 Serial blasts across the country, '08 Bombay.

One Hindu temple in Malayasia is being destroyed every three days.

A Hindu temple was recently razed down in Lahore to build a community hall.

Hindu terrorism, indeed !!!

I seriously doubt you responding to my post - please - prove me wrong.
And do not resort to name-calling.

Joy said...

NAT

Daal mein bahut kuchh kala hai.
In fact, it is the entire lentil soup that has gone back, due to the distortion of fact that has gone into the Indian history-writing, dominated by Marxists like Romila Thapar, Tarachand and others.

"The number of victims of this persecution surpasses that of the Nazi crimes. ... The Islamic reports on the massacres of Hindus, destruction of Hindu temples, the abduction of Hindu women and forced conversions, invariably express great glee and pride. ... In my study of the Ayodhya controversy, I noticed that the frequent attempts to conceal or deny inconvenient evidence were an integral part of a larger effort to rewrite India's history and to whitewash Islam. It struck me that this effort to deny the unpleasant facts of Islam's destructive role in Indian history is similar to the attempts by some European writers to deny the Nazi holocaust. European negationists applaud Hitler's reign and deny its horrors. Indian negationists eulogize Islamic rule and deny its millionfold murders and the catastrophe it wrought in Indian cultural, political and religious life."
-Koenraad Elst, Negationism in India - Concealing the Record of Islam , 1992

Joy said...

Ms De

How wonderful.
I see you have finally gone down to the levels of the Congress-Marxist dominated history writers - I expected more from you.

Anyways, let's see if I can answer your questions -
Howcome three top cops were gunned down so easily by two terrorists who were apparently hiding behind some trees near my old college , St. Xavier's??

Because they were armed with Berettas, equipped with extremely poor quality bullet-proof jackets and peppered with Assault Kalashnikovs.
And they were ambushed.


Why would Karkare and Salaskar get into the same police van , that too near Cama Hospital??

Um - because we refuse to provide our cops with basic amenities such as riot vehicles.
Because there were not enough vehicles.
Because in a time for emergencies super-cops like the three brave men do not worry about niceties and protocols - they might jump into the same car if it is required.


How quaint - I've been screaming across blogs all the while about out explanistic and anti-majority media - seems I forgot our politicians, too.

Statements like these are made for communal gains, of course - nothing else... point the finger at the longest-suffering race in the history of mankind - the race which has been tortured, humiliated and brutalized through the history of time. And the people pointing the fingers are the ones who did the brutalizing.

And are being supported by Jaichands.
Again.

Ms. De - do you know who Jaichand was ?

No ?

What a pity.

Arjun said...

be careful De...
They might come after you next ;-o

Anonymous said...

Hey everyone, there are job openings at the NIA (National Investigating Agency)... All you guys should apply!!!

Nikohl said...

I totally disagree with your comments and also Mr.Antulay.Please Ms Shobha dont give enough fodder to Pakistan which is already trying to fool the world with this theory.I know your dislike for BJP or Shiv Sena but you are doing disservice to India by unnecesary creating conteroversy.You dont need to be famous this way you are already famous.

Anonymous said...

one of IPS officer told his Son(who is preparing for IAS)
that son if u knew the truth u'll lose all your faith in the system.

why he said that i don't know...
but it does tells u a lot of things were covered up.

How i know this ...coz that son is my friend.And his Dad was there at the time.

tc everyone

Sathyanarayana said...

The Atulya report is total rubbish as my understanding goes. Let's think logical - even if BJP influenced the travelling of Saleskar and Karkare together to Cama Hosptial in same jeep and ask them to walk into the trap. This sounds very funny for they accepting to do so. My guess, the officers with all due repect for them, didn't have enough training during the carnage(live demos). They (hunters) just walked in with a desi pistol and armer and with age old training of arms and amunition easy became hunted.
Coming to Pak, do are they living their words? They are just unbelievable it was ISI chief then, and now J-U-Dawa leader. Whom are they fooling, India or world. They have blood all over them and they just don't admit it. It's the best blooper ever watched. May be some day they will be shown in Cartoon network not News channels.

Sathyanarayana

Anonymous said...

Seriously, i topple laughing in my chair reading all these peoples theories supporting or defending antulay's claim. People have so much insecurity that they provide a quick fix answer. I think thats why us the insecure citizens of India vote in lame politicians like we do.

If Antulay's question is stupid, then why is there so much dhamaka about it? No doubt people's insecurities are being raked up.

Pratap said...

@Anonymous who made the 19th Dec, 7:50 am post:

There is so much dhamaka about it not because people's insecurities are being raked up.
The dhamaka is because a corrupt, past-due-date, politician who has NOT distinguished himself in any way his entire term in this cabinet is suddenly making unfounded allegations that fly in the face of all existing information in the public space. IF he HAS the proof he should lay it out in front of the public. Or at the very least, provide it to the Home Minister (who incidentally belongs to his own party) and to his "High Command".

The fact that he is the Minority Affairs minister leads one to wonder if he is doing this for narrow partisan reasons with an eye on the votebank for the next election.

When the entire country is disgusted with the political class (of all parties and idealogies (ha!)) he is just proving the point that they are all put self and party before country.
Also his timing is so suspect - when the entire Parliament seems to have come together to debate (with uncharacteristic decorum) the two bills dealing with internal security - where does this man get off disrupting and vitiating the atmosphere with unfounded allegations.

I know that the media too has lost its credibility - it IS blatantly partisan.
However today's TOI Mumbai edition has used up an entire page to disprove his unfounded allegation - with a graphic of the lay of the land and what happened.
AND in an editorial called for his resignation.

So PLEASE - before you doubt the insecurities of the people, may I suggest you look up information in the public space.

Antara said...

I wonder why too..in fact I always suspected the role play of some politicians in this ordeal..it isn't such an easy task to break into national security w/o powerful insider ties, would love to see them all lined up outside their closets..blood boils when I even think of the rogues we elect or allow to get elected.

Anonymous said...

Dear Pratap,

Really, I hate to be looking down on people like you... but your shallow judgement is worth scoffing at.

You say "IF he HAS the proof he should lay it out in front of the public. Or at the very least, provide it to the Home Minister."

The very reason Mr. Antulay raised such a question, is coz he doesn't have the god damn proof! Don't you get it? He is just asking questions, to which answers can easily be provided. So provide him with the answers and move along bhai. Why do you guys make it so complicated? Really, why?

Jeezz! And then we complain about the politicians being lame. Civilians are displaying the exact same communal tactics of the politicians... so it doesnt make us different from them. I for one refuse to speak fowl of the politicians as who is to say how I would or you would act if we were in their shoes. Its very convenient for us to bash them and pretend all righteous. Just stop it... be little more innovative and constructive guys.. comeon.

Anonymous said...

As a continuition to my above post. I would like to say something that everyone has infact overlooked.

If such a hue and cry wasn't made of Antulay's remarks in parliament, none of us would be talking about it.

I think those unruly BJP MP's who probably never seen the insides of a classroom, should sometimes just shut up and move on.

Pratap said...

@Anonymous of the 9:57 am post:

I am not going to give Antulay the benefit of the doubt - given his history of the last 30+ years and especially his stint as the CM of Maharashtra.

I will admit that on Wed 26th night, when I saw on TV that the three officers were killed and then saw Ajmal's photo with the red thread on his right hand I had questions about circumstances of the death of these three officers too.

I just pointed out that the TOI Mumbai edition HAS provided information including names of eyewitnesses. He cannot raise questions without providing supporting evidence.

I also wouldn't go so far as to assume that all the civilians are as communal as the politicians. Some of us are truly secular.

I KNOW how I would act if I were in Antulay's shoes - or for that matter of S Patil (would have quit after the 1st bomb blast on my watch), V Deshmukh (would never have taken my son or his buddy to the Taj and Oberoi), R R Patil (would have spoken in Marathi if I didnt know Hindi), Naqvi (wouldnt have even gone there) and so on.

I wouldn't go so far as to judge virtual personae - "Its very convenient for us to bash them and pretend all righteous."

Anonymous said...

Easier said than done my friend... trust me ;)

It is very easy to furnish an angle to make even a righteous man look like a villain. Continuous accusations, criticism, time in the limelight etc. make people lose their nerves and impairs their judgements at times too you know... You could very easily have fallen that same dusty trail if you were one of them. As i said before, Easier said than done.

But let me give you the benefit of the doubt and say if you become a great leader, remember your words and let your actions speak.

Anonymous said...

If you would have quit after 1st bomb blast on your "watch" you would be tooted as a quitter and coward... and what not ...

I dont think I would quit after the 1st bomb blast, but rather learn what went wrong and what actions need to be taken for the future.

So you don't get full marks as a wannabe politican sorry hehe

avi said...

Dear shobhaa. Thanks for the essay on why the indian investigating agencies should stop looking for people who assisted the terrorists or the "two pakistani strangers" .. Madam its my view that there is always a chance that what antulay said is true but. Just as long the minister has stayed in politics, these policemen had more experience in tackling terror . Just as they had investigated malegaon attacks they had also been there defending mumbai in 92 also..so should the saffron party now come up that every terrorist killing a officer investigating a muslim criminal is a muslim? How fair would that be on muslims? Have there policemen not killed muslim criminals in the several encounters they had done in years. I'm only saying that criminals are criminals don't give them any religious colour and don't undermine the experience of these terrorists too. For god's sake they had engaged the elite nsg for 60 hours.they were obviously better shooters than our policemen who couldn't defend themselves from the ak47 bullets with 6 round revolvers..its easier for encounter specialists to kill when the victim to be is helpless not quite when he has a ak 47. Thanks for doing the pakistani media and politicians the favour. And also next time please do not support theories that do not have sufficient proofs. I know its very difficult for an arm chair journalist to stop doing.

Twisted Elegance.... said...

The terrorist who was arrested has himself confessed that he along with his mate killed the ATS chief. And the phone call between the terrorists and their mentors that was intercepted clearly indicates this. The terrorists said that they have got a bonus by killing Kharkare.

I say this is a foul and dirty trick by the entire congress party. They were afraid of losing the muslim votebank for introducing the amendments to the Unlawful activities prevention Act. So in order to neutralize the ill effects of the amendments on the muslim community they have suddenly put up this conspiracy theory so that the muslims might feel that congress is being good to them! What better way to earn Muslim votes than by bashing Hindus..

Antulay is just a pawn of Sonia Ghandhi in this game!

Anand said...

Hi Shobha, tough is ur stand and tough is mine as well.. I wonder how our styles differ?

Written a few things,including u.
If u get time off,have a looksee..

http://takeuplaces.blogspot.com/2008/12/mighty-lion-and-cunning-mouse.html#links

and my latest..

http://takeuplaces.blogspot.com/2008/12/masood-azhar-invisible-man.html#links

Wud appreciate a comment if u do get some time to do so.

honestinjun said...

Agree with you totally Shobhaa. In fact that was the first reaction when I heard the news as it was from a lot of people I know. His questions are pertinent. It is time the administration answered them

Bill the Butcher said...

Coincidences happen; war is full of them.Stupid blunders by experienced people have happened so often there's no shortage of them. I would not put the killings of Karkare, Salaskar (a real nasty piece of goods there; good riddance to him,methinks) and Kamte (why no mention of ,him, let alone the cannon-fodder constables killed?) as anything more than the deserved reward of stupidity so profound that they should not by any stretch of the imagination be called heroes.

What the hell was Karkare doing in the firing line anyway? Whether his helmet or bulletproof vest was junk is beside the point. He was the commander. Especially in the context of a system like India's, where the average individual soldier or policeman is neither trained nor encouraged to use the slightest bit of initiative, the commander is all-important. Karkare should have remained in a position where he could co-ordinate things and oversee opeartions. Putting himself in the firing line was a piece of idiocy so profound he should have been dismissed from his post them and there.

Anonymous said...

Hello Guys ! There is a reason why people are "hyperventilating". Antulay, a MINISTER FOR THE UNION OF INDIA ought to have raised this issue in the Cabinet Meetings that have been held almost since the attacks. For a Union Minister to raise doubts in public shows a complete disregard to the sanctity of the Cabinet. If he wanted karkare's death to be investigated, he ought to have forced the issue at a cabinet meeting . loose talk such as this can only communalise an issue. Thanks to antulay, karkare's family will always wonder who killed him as antulay has succeeded in closing a probe even before it has begun. Please, lets have a retirement age for Cabinet Memberships !

T Azeez Luthfullah said...

The questions raised by Antulay are relevant and important as far as justice is concerned.
Let us search answers for those questions. What are the circumstances which led Karkare to the death trap? Who is the mastermind? Who are beneficiaries from the death of Karkarre? The nation awaits an answer.

T Azeez Luthfullah said...

Dear Shobha De,
I agree with the apprehension of Arjun. Be careful.

Another Kiran In NYC said...

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India/Antulays_allegation_not_borne_out_by_facts/articleshow/3860037.cms

Perhaps people would like to take a look at this.

I realise that it is only a press investigation and not the real thing, but it is a start for some thought about circumstantial evidence of what happened to Karkare and CO.

Twisted Elegance, I agree with you about Antulay reacting to the new Amendment debate. Whether he was doing it JUST for his own gain or because he thought he was helping the Party cause, is debateable but he certainly was trying to justify his job to Madam. In any case, I dont think HIB appreciates his "help" at all.

As Minorities Minister, Antulay could put forth his own opposition to any draconian new amendment that can cause Minorities to be unfairly targeted but sensationalising it like this, smacks of self interest.

Anonymous said...

I like it how people on here are selectively impervious to media findings, and at the same time believe that the media is biased.

This only goes to show how the human mind will believe in what it choses to or wants to believe in. End of story... no amounts of media inputs, good politcians or bad politicians can change what we really are. Face it people.

Vikrant said...

hii this is not an artical this is not any cooments on my fav shobhaa de's wrting,
this da first time that i am sahring my feelings with someone i never do it b4 but dis time i dont know i am strongly feeling to write or u can say SHEARing with u guys.......
I was allways been SOMETIMEs unwanted child at my home sorry to say dta but i felt so
coz of my staright4wordness or could be coz of my DIFFRENT Point of views,,
for myself , for world, for ppl wo love me wo hate me,

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Milind Kher said...

The questions that Antulay raised are eminently pertinent.

We do know that these top 3 cops were gunned down by Pakistani terrorists. However, the issue is - who sent them all there? Is it just a coincednece that Hemant Karkare happened to be probing the Malegaon blasts? There is a lot more to it than meets the eye, and it needs to be addressed.

Pratap said...

"If you would have quit after 1st bomb blast on your "watch" you would be tooted as a quitter and coward... and what not ... "
...
"So you don't get full marks as a wannabe politican sorry hehe"

Lal Bahadur Shastry resigned as Railway Minister taking responsibility for an accident.
Madhavrao Scindia followed the same example.
The first went on to become a much loved - though unfortunately short-tenured - PM.
The second was looked up to as being a possible contender for PM in the future.

Not every quitter is a coward.
And these were seasoned politicians - one who came up thru the ranks during the freedom struggle and the other who proved his worth though he got a jump start courtesy the accident of birth.

Maverick said...

Hi Shobhaa,
While it's good to see you raising questions against those questioning Antulay, it's astonishing to see you missing the statements of the lone survivor in that attack. Yes, I am talking about Constable Arun Jadhav, who was with the officers in that Van. They had received info that Sadanand Date had been injured in the gunfire at Cama hospital. All of them took a Toyota Qualis and proceeded in that direction.
Moreover, the lone terrorist to be nabbed alive has also confessed to murdering him.
Sometimes I feel being born as someone belonging to the so-called "majority" community is a big curse for all of us. Why do we need to bring this issue every time?
When NGOs and politicians run behind causes which are supposed to bring in a few brownie points from Muslims, they are proclaimed to be champions of their cause and ultimate secularists. When we talk of Hindus, we are branded as "communalists".
I know you won't believe this, but I have seen educated Muslims, who in my opinion don't know what it feels to be alienated(if in case they feel this is what is happening with them in this country), falling for such baits. And in times, when we expect the educated lot to rise up and condemn the motive of terrorists. What is it which they are lacking in this country that they listen to those who talk only about them? Why is that most of them fail to introspect when it is required the most? Why do they have to look with suspicion towards others? This is their country as well and should be ready to share the blame. Why should we treat them as minority and us as majority? We all are Indians first and should get over petty politics. Don't you think Antulay would have realized what repercussions his statements would have in these times? If you can recall an appropriate term to address such people, it's my earnest request, please do let me know!
There are castes within the Hindu community who have been alienated for so long. If a Dalit comes and sits under your porch, you have the earth over there excavated! Have you ever heard them taking to bombs and reckless killing.
And people talk about ideologies. To hell with it!! Terrorists coming here and killing innocents can't claim to have any ideology. And if they are adamant, then it's bullshit!(Even cow dung is considered to be sacred) Don't they recognize planting of random bombs and reckless gunfire doesn't distinguish between a Hindu or a muslim soul. And they have supporters here in our country!! Who are they fooling around with. That's outrageous. They come here and kill innocents, and in public networking sites I find people justifying that by saying that it's just a revenge for Babri Masjid demolition, Godhra etc.
My first question to all of them is: Who are these terrorists to demand such answers? It has happened within the limits of our country and we will solve it internally. No body even seems to blink an eye at the plight of Kashmiri Hindus, how they were forced out of their homes and had to go through genocide, infiltration through Bangla borders etc. Does that mean that we Hindus should also start planting Bombs and start killing innocents? Why has the rationale thinking gone into a hiding?
I would like to believe that wisdom dawns on these leaders. Sooner, the better. For them!

Maverick said...

@Anonymous

26/11 when I heard and saw on tell the gunning of these officer suddenly the same thought crept into my mind and conveyed it and was chided for my wild imagination today I feel somewhat relieved that I am ok and a normal person and not a freak as my folks at home think

Why this suspicion mate? That means you don't think of right things. You don't feel secure.
The very fact you are sitting cosily at your home(or some where else) writing this stuff, signifies that you are in no way directly affected by such incidents and it's your suspicion towards the other community which is speaking on behalf of you.
You have a lot to introspect my friend. Just heed to what I am saying. You have chances to have a rendezvous with your moment of truth.

Jai Hind

vikram said...

pretty idiotic me thinks what you thinks. hemant karkare was'nt a crack shot just an investigator. And why do we have to think so much everytime. Can't such unfortunate things happen just outta the blue. Do we have to be like pakis and floating conspiracy theories that might undermine our own diplomacy. That the kaangress did this to please the muslims is pretty obvious to anybody with a pea sized brain. And all said and done, karkare was'nt an idiot that he would just go to any site just because anybody told him to go. The questions raised are pretty silly and just to garner publicity. And he's gotten it.

Vivek said...

What does ministers like Antuley are aiming to achieve by questioning the circumstances under which ATS chief Mr. Karkare died?

Our brave soldiers lay their lives in the service of country and these politicians are busy insulting their sacrifices.What does one aim to achieve by questioning "the circumstances under which ATS chief Mr. Karkare died" or "the Batla house encounter" where one of Delhi's police most decorated officer Inspector Sharma lost his life.

Milind Kher said...

The manner in which Mr Karkarev laid down his life battling the terrorists has made him a hero for us who no celluloid hero can match.

However, if there is any scope for doubt that somebody may have set him up, that needs to be investigated. The lives of officers like this are precious to the nation, and we should not have a tragedy like this repeated.

*Aham* said...

we have been far too emotional...


while we salute the officers for the good work they have done, as a mark of respect we need to investigate all possible causes of their death. And at this difficult time, no neta or abhineta would pass a comment of this kind if it was baseless.

were the terrorists abhinav bhindra? such sharp shooters that they could shoot from behind the trees in our college compound to a speeding vehicle next to metro adlabs?

There are some people who are somewhat making this a hindu muslim issue like our other alumni Shabana. I saw in we the people... she must have said "indian muslim" around 5 times in a 2-3 minute eeny-meeny discussion with Barkha in we the people. Would any political party be foolish to suffer foot-in-mouth. And certainly not a seasoned guy like antulay.

Let there be a probe. The martyrs deserve that. Their families should infact demand a probe.

Pratap said...

The Home Minister made a statement in Parliament about the circumstances of Karkare's death.
Antulay now says "all his doubts have been cleared". WITHOUT an inquiry/probe! How come he is now satisfied?! Perhaps his kursi was threatened and he suddenly sees the light?
Also during a press conference outside Parliament a few minutes ago, he went into classic defense-offense mode refusing to allow his quotes (seen on TV) to be read back to him claiming he was not in the dock to be questioned.
This whole episode reeks of dirty communal politics by him and by the Congress "High Command".

The 2 Pakistani terrorists used sweeping fire from Kalashnikovs to kill these 3 officers and some more people in that Qualis from a short distance. They did not need to have Abhinav Bindra's skills.

Anonymous said...

"Get well Soon"

Anonymous said...

What pains me is that people completely unrelated to his line of work are saying things like why were three top cops together ?and that it was a dumb ass thing to do!

What the hell do you know what was professional and what was not? I do not even want to defend Mr. Karkare people who are just plain simple barking dogs! He died in the line of duty ,he had the guts to go out there. I salute his exemplary bravery and there are a lot of people who feel the same and have expressed it in a hundred different ways. I cannot shut the mouths of people who crib at every occasion and cannot even spare something like this. But even I have a voice.